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And one conversation we frequently have with small organizations is whether they are prepared to handle dealing with the federal government as it is an unique customer and this is simply contributing to the conversation that they are not all set, which is an expense to the government (Asia Virtual Solutions).

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TAKAI. Thank you. I yield back. Chairman HANNA. Mr. Horan-- Hardy? Excuse me. Mr. HARDY. Thank you. I say sorry for being late. Mr. Stanford, in your testament, you had spoken about Amazon as an example of how the GSA-- and I hope someone has not asked this question already-- would place the concern on specialists and report agreement details although the company currently has the information awarded to the contract.

Being a small organization individual, I have actually had to deal with federal agreements prior to. It appears to me that this is just another method of government trying to resolve their issue instead of take care of the problems themselves that they have the info at their hands. Would you accept that in rather of that fashion? I have a little bit harder way of stating it, but that is-- Mr.

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Yes. And I believe the chairman put it well. It is information that the government currently has, and it does seem counterintuitive and there is agreement among the panel that this does not make any sense. And there really-- in the commercial world, it truly would not make good sense for the individual who is serving as the platform to acquire the products, to then require to be told what those goods and services cost.

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Does anybody believe that GSA has perhaps undervalued the genuine cost of what this is going to impact the services? Our members at the Coalition for Federal Government Procurement, we performed a survey and I think that is one of the biggest locations-- it is the greatest area of disconnect between government and industry on this specific rule, the concern itself.

The burden goes to increasing expenses for the taxpayer and for consumer companies who utilize GSA. Looking at it, we have actually addressed it in our written testimony. However at the end of the day, based upon our price quotes and our feedback from our members, and we carried out a study where we were going to try to utilize GSA's language that they utilized in the rule, in their formula to come up with the numbers based on feedback from our members, it would cost over $800 million just to implement this guideline across the GSA Schedules program.

And at the same time, GSA indicated in the rule that it would be too costly for the federal government or for it to change its systems. I believe, if I recall, we were talking in the tens of millions of dollars, and what they stopped working to, I believe, value, or to their credit, having a public conference and asking talk about it, they stopped working to comprehend or appreciate the numerous millions of dollars that it will cost industry who take part in the GSA Schedules program to comply.

HARDY. I will take it another direction. Being a company guy, you understand, I work on bids. I was a basic engineering specialist, so I put out quotes. Now they are asking you to detail everything you got (GSA Search Engine Ranker Services). All your info that you have that might put you in the competitive motion, they are wanting us to supply that information, which they request for line product bids.

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HORAN. I concur. I believe it is a significant issue, and my customers have essentially generally voiced that issue. It is viewed, I believe, in industry as competitively sensitive details. The rule is unclear on how it can be used, or more notably, I think, how it will be protected.

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I believe I can state that usually, industry is very worried about that, that competitively delicate info will be out there for competitors to obtain. And I guess I would also add that this info could trigger harm if it is out there to professionals both in the commercial marketplace and the government market because this type of pricing details would be valuable for business competitors.

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